Muammar Al Khadafi

Here's an interesting thought for the 81 Tories who did have the guts to stand up and vote to give the British people a say on the EU.

According to figures on www.parliament.uk ConDem currently has a working majority of 83.

Think about it. Dave Cameron and the ConDem chimera coalition would be placed in a very difficult position if you all resigned the Tory whip, or at least threatened to behind the scenes.

That would give you a lot of bargaining power to win the British people a say currently if you could remain united.

Without you ConDem has a working majority of 2, which would quite likely render their position as a government completely untenable.

Britain wants a say on the EU. You who voted in favour of this referendum motion had the guts to do that, and to stand by giving Britain a voice.

Why stop there?

At this point in time you've a great opportunity to stand up for Britain and the British people, and to show that you back our right to decide upon our own future.

You really could be heroes here, and stand against a Lib/Lab/Con who are united in keeping us in the EU and denying us the right to determine our own future.

The Tory, Labour, and Liberal parties have all betrayed Britain and British democracy with their stance on the EU and refusal to let Britain choose - one hopes at least there are some honourable men and women among their ranks who will put their necks on the line to fight this treachery.

Britains future is at stake, and you all know Cameron and ConDem will do nothing, and that Labour is a bird of the same feather - for the sake of Britain, and for freedom, don't stop here.

Well, the results on the non binding vote on whether we should have a referendum on membership of the EU is in - defeated by 483 to 111. At least there's 111 people in Parliament who are not enemies of allowing Britain its democratic right to choose.

As was inevitable, Labour and Liberal mostly voted against, along with the majority of Tories. However 81 Tories did defy the three line whip imposed by David Cameron, there's a list at the end of this story to see if your Tory MP had the guts to stand up and be counted and voted to allow you a say on the EU.

We should note also 19 Labour MP's and 1 Lib Dem MP also backed the motion and the publics right to decide.

Kudos to those who favoured giving us a say and voted accordingly. Shame on the majority of Tories, and the Labour and Liberal parties, who would deny us that democratic right.

Although the referendum proposal was soundly defeated, the rebellion highlights a Tory party increasingly divided over the EU, and a Tory leadership which is out of touch with many of its members not to mention public opinion.

Of course David Cameron has said that he's yearning for EU reform, and firmly committed to repatriating powers, his actions say differently though. And, after the next election, it's all the pro EU Liberal Democrats fault, it always is. The joys of a coalition government, we would have done it, but our partner party stopped us. It's the political equivalent of a get out of jail free card.

Where's democracy anyway when Dave had to order his MP's to vote a certain way - why not a free vote? Scared of the answer you'd get Dave?

Cameron, Clegg, and Milliband. Tory, Liberal, Labour. All puppets on the EU string. None of them are going to give us a say.

Sadly we, the voters, and those Tory MP's who were brave enough to stand by their principles in the face of Camerons three line whip bullying, had best wake up to the fact - we'll never be given a say by the usual suspects, the EU nightmare is here to stay.

Those MP's, and we the voters, had best start looking for other parties to back if serious about getting given the right to democratically decide on our future relations with the EU. Tory, Labour, Liberal will all make sure we never get a voice.

That's democracy for you, our wishes don't matter a damn.

Steven Baker (Wycombe)
John Baron (Basildon and Billericay)
Andrew Bingham (High Peak)
Brian Binley (Northampton South)
Bob Blackman (Harrow East)
Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West)
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire)
Steve Brine (Winchester)
Fiona Bruce (Congleton)
Dan Byles (North Warwickshire)
Douglas Carswell (Clacton)
Bill Cash (Stone)
Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
James Clappison (Hertsmere)
Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford)
David TC Davies (Monmouth)
Philip Davies (Shipley)
David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden)
Nick de Bois (Enfield North)
Caroline Dinenage (Gosport)
Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire)
Richard Drax (South Dorset)
Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster)
Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble)
Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park)
James Gray (North Wiltshire)
Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry)
Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey)
George Hollingberry (Meon Valley)
Philip Hollobone (Kettering)
Adam Holloway (Gravesham)
Stewart Jackson (Peterborough)
Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex)
Marcus Jones (Nuneaton)
Chris Kelly (Dudley South)
Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire)
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford)
Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)
Julian Lewis (New Forest East)
Karen Lumley (Redditch)
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes)
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley)
Karl McCartney (Lincoln)
Stephen McPartland (Stevenage)
Anne Main (St Albans)
Patrick Mercer (Newark)
Nigel Mills (Amber Valley)
Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot)
James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis)
Stephen Mosley (City of Chester)
Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall)
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North)
David Nuttall (Bury North)
Matthew Offord (Hendon)
Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton)
Priti Patel (Witham)
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole)
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin)
Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood)
John Redwood (Wokingham)
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset)
Simon Reevell (Dewsbury)
Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury)
Andrew Rossindell (Romford)
Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills)
Henry Smith (Crawley)
John Stevenson (Carlisle)
Bob Stewart (Beckenham)
Gary Streeter (South West Devon)
Julian Sturdy (York Outer)
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle)
Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon)
Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight)
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes)
Charles Walker (Broxbourne)
Robin Walker (Worcester)
Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire)
Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley)
John Whittingdale (Maldon)

As the vote - non binding of course, think Dave Cameron will listen to an answer he doesn't like? - on whether to hold an EU referendum draws closer, seems Dave is busy in 'informal talks' to make sure that the majority of Tories vote the way he wants them to.

Meanwhile, Ed Who?, ahh yes, Ed Miliband, is busily telling anyone who can stay awake long enough to listen that Dave Cameron is putting party interest before national interest.

Does that mean Labour MP's have been instructed to vote in favour of the proposals for a referendum then, and would then follow on by supporting allowing Britain a referendum in reality and not just undertake a party political manoeuvre to humiliate the Tories?

Of course it doesn't. Pot. Kettle. Black. No offence meant, hope that isn't considered a racist remark for the thought Gestapo to leap upon.

None of the big three parties are putting national interest or Britains wishes first.

Despite numerous polls showing that the majority of Britain wishes for a referendum, or to leave the EU, not a lot happens, those running the show ignore the voice of the country.

If that many voters were clamouring to pay more taxes, or to give MP's a pay rise for doing such a brilliant job, does anyone think it would have taken this long - not to mention a vote with a non binding outcome as to whether we even get a vote - for politicians to have acted?

Of course it wouldn't, truth is they only listen when we're saying what they want to hear.

Hopefully todays vote will humiliate Cameron and put him in a difficult position, as well as strengthening calls for a referendum. If possible we'll list the MP's who had the courage to vote to give us a referendum once results are in.

But....most likely there's a back room deal which will see some limp promise to renegotiate terms of membership, and to claw back the odd power, in exchange for a vote against a referendum. Probably "when the time is right" too. Hollow words, don't expect action to follow, it's just a sop to try and avoid a Commons humiliation.

Even if todays vote goes the way of those wanting out of the EU, or if they at least manage a decent showing, does anyone think Cameron and the rest of Parliament will deliver on actually giving us a say, especially when we already know the outcome of todays vote is not binding - but of course will be binding if calls for a referendum are soundly defeated.

Today will most likely turn out to be more about David Cameron and the woes it will cause him in the face of a possible large rebellion from Tory MP's rather than whether or not we, the people, will ever get a say.

Let's hope we're proven wrong for once. Rumours are that despite Dave Camerons best efforts the number of Tories who will rebel is growing at least.

One day, just one day, Dhimmi Dave Cameron will do something to shock voters. Not today though, no big surprise that Conservative MP's are to be ordered to vote against proposals for a referendum on Europe.

Camerons decision to impose a three line whip is somewhat ironic given the fact that the vote on the referendum motion arose from rules which ConDem claimed would give backbenchers more freedom.

Guess what backbenchers? You've as much freedom as the rest of us, the only time you'll really get a say is when the leadership know that you will say what they want.

Under the motion, the proposed referendum would offer voters three choices on the UK's future within (or without) the EU.

A/ remain a member of the EU on the current terms B/ leave the EU C/ renegotiate the terms of its membership in order to create a new relationship based on trade and co-operation.

The outcome of such a referendum - if held fairly - is already known, it most definitely won't be option A, and that's exactly the reason why so many among the big parties leaderships will fight tooth and nail to make sure that the UK never gets a say.

There may be some huffing and puffing from Eurosceptic Tories, but that's about where it will end. Cameron and his three line whip is already ensuring exactly how the vote will go, and there's little hope Labour will decide to support the motion in order to humiliate Dhimmi Dave.

Even if - miracle of miracles - the motion is successful, the result is still non binding. There will be no referendum offered, it's as simple as that.

At most, should the motion succeed, Dhimmi Dave will promise to listen to the result, and maybe to do something "when the time is right". The rest of us might well read that as "Do nothing until we're in opposition, then claim we'd have honoured demands for a referendum and hope the electorate buy it enough to vote us back in". After all, Dhimmi Dave has a track record on that.

We're staying in the EU under Liberal, Labour, or Conservative, it is that simple, and we'll never be given our say on it. All three of the usual suspect parties already know that they'd not like the answer we'd give.

Go on Tories, prove us wrong. Ignore Cameron, make a gesture and let Britain know you support our right to have a say on Europe.

Foreign Secretary William Hague has said that there is no immediate prospect of taking back powers from the EU, even though he claims to support repatriation of powers.

"The repatriation of powers, which is something I support by the way, is not an immediate prospect because no countries are proposing widespread treaty change" Hague told the Andrew Marr Show.

In other words nothing will be done, bailouts for the Euro and European economies will continue, and Britain will remain in servitude to the European Union.

When politicians say 'no immediate prospect, but I do support it...' what they tend to mean is that they'll do nothing whilst in power, then suddenly discover a newfound committment to it around election time or whilst in opposition.

Doesn't mean they'll do a thing about it at any time, just that it's good to tell the electorate what they want to hear.

The fact is simple, and it is that under Tory, Liberal, or Labour, we will never see any repatriation of powers from Europe, and we will never be given a say on remaining in Europe.

They may hint at powers and changes to appease the voters, but the EU - and our involvement - is here to stay on their watch.

The best we'll get is some talk, promises to look at things 'when the time is right', and a few sops to public opinion. Nothing will really change and nothing of substance will be done.

"VICTORY IN BID TO QUIT EU" screams the Express, in block capitals, it's that exciting a headline, they take the credit that it's down to their campaigning against the EU. Their 'crusade' as they call it.

Great headline, but what it really amounts to is that there's to be a debate and vote in Parliament as to whether we get a referendum. A non binding vote, the outcome can just be ignored.

In other words, the chance of it going anywhere - other than a few uncomfortable moments for ConDem - is about zero. However it pans out we're not going to get any kind of meaningful referendum.

One would dearly love to be proven wrong, but it won't happen.

It's not "VICTORY IN BID TO QUIT EU" it's more like "NOTHING WILL CHANGE".

Anyone thinking dhimmi Dave or clueless Clegg are going to deliver on a genuinely free referendum needs their heads examined.

There is cross party agreement among the leaders of the big three - WE WILL NEVER GET A SAY.

Perhaps there will be a debate, but the outcome is decided long before it happens.

If things go awry - shock, horror, best buy a lottery ticket because the odds are similar - and Euro puppet UK politicians have to offer a referendum, it will be one that has only one possible outcome.

They've had time since Ireland to refine things, we'll get a referendum with only one acceptable answer and everything slanted to make sure that is the answer returned, if indeed we get anything more than a show referendum where we vote on a mere irrelevance.

If even after that we don't return the right answer, it will be ignored, or they'll run it again until we do.

It will never even reach that stage though.

We'll get our sham debate in the Commons, some heated scenes, and not a damn thing will happen.

There may be many Tory Eurosceptics, but it isn't them calling the shots, they're in for an eye opening time if they think their opinion matters one bit to the party leadership.

You'll get thrown a bone at best, and it will have little meat on it, those at the top of the Tories have their lips on the buttocks of Brussels as much as Labour and Liberal do.

We'll say it plain, in capitals to appease the Express - LIB/LAB/CON = NO SAY, EU HERE TO STAY.

There it is, nice and simple, that's how it is. There will be no free and open say on it during any of their watches, there are too many vested interests in making sure we never get one.

The only time they'd ever give us a say is when they already know the outcome will be the one they want, and that is no say at all.

Let's watch events prove this article entirely right, there is no way the British people will be given a fair say. They'll only allow us a say when they know we'll say what they want, and they know that if we ever got a say on Europe we'd be waving goodbye to the EU the moment the vote was counted.

They'll never allow that to happen.

With over 100,000 signatures demanding Cameron calls a referendum on Britains membership of the EU, it looks as if there might well be a parliamentary debate on the issue at some point.

Expect just that though - debate. A few words and heated exchanges, a few headlines, and then business as usual.

Call me Dave has insisted that there's no case for a referendum, and has been busily singing Europes praises.

The decision has already been made.

Neither Clegg, Cameron, or Miliband, are going to get us out of the EU.

Despite us having three large parties who are supposedly distinct and possessed of their own ideas for governing our country, there's a couple things that those leading them have in common despite whatever the lesser members think.

We'll be staying in the EU, and mass immigration will continue.

Two of the things which the electorate consider most important, and all of the usual political suspects are singing off the same hymn sheet.

Elect Lib/Lab/Con and you'll not get a say, it's as simple as that.

There will be no in/out referendum on Europe because there are too many at the top with vested interests in keeping us in.

The only time Cameron would ever give us a say on in/out is if the outcome was a dead cert to give a rubber stamp to policy which is already set in stone. Otherwise, we've not a chance in hell of being heard.

A debate might be awkward for the EU zealots, but there is just no way it will ever go beyond debate on their watch.

There's will be the usual talk - only with the usual suspects doing all the talking, and we the electorate will never be allowed to have our say.

We'll be staying in the EU, simple as that, at least until we stop electing the same old parties whose leaders have prostituted themselves entirely to the European cause.

Interesting news from Liberia, where an error in the referendum on constitutional changes resulted in all possible votes on one question being identical.



Voters were supposed to be asked if judges should retire at 70 or 75, but the error meant that the ballot lists 75 twice, thus giving the voters no choice at all.



It also seems that the referendum organisers were fully aware of the error, but chose not to inform voters.



Don't go getting any ideas Dave Cameron, scratching your chin, and wondering if this might be a perfect way to give us that promised - but never delivered - referendum on our involvement with the EU.



"Do you want closer ties and further integration with the EU?"



"Yes?"



"Yes?"



Bet it's tempting though.



You could keep that pledge, deliver a referendum, and not have to risk needing to run it a couple more times until we gave the right answer, otherwise known as the answer which was the one you wanted all along and was the only answer which would be accepted.



It would be so wonderfully multicultural as well, you could claim to have enriched British politics and EU membership with enlightening wisdom from African elections.



No, no, don't go getting any ideas Dave.



Best we hush now before you spend that holiday in Cornwall lying in the sun and convincing yourself that it might be something worth trying, that "honest guv, it was a typo!" might just work.

We all knew it anyway, but Dave Cameron (via senior aide Laurence Mann) has just made it official - despite a pledge to give us a referendum upon our membership of the EU, we're not going to get one. No shock there.

Why no referendum? Because we had one in 1975, even though that signed was sold to us as the Common Market, a vastly different entity to the sprawling and dictatorial bureaucracy which is the EU we see today.

Funny how voting and referendums work, there wasn't too much complaining when Ireland had to re-run its EU vote until it returned the answer which the politicians wanted. It's odd we'll not get one here until it is 100% certain it will return the right answer either - which will be never, the majority of Britain wants no part of the EU nightmare.

Not only that, but it just wouldn't be fair to allow us a referendum because people want to say neither a clear yes or a clear no, but rather favour some bits of the EU and reject others.

Err, yes Dave, it's the same every election. You think everyone who put their X down for Liberal, Labour, or Conservative wholeheartedly backed every single policy which their chosen party held?

Of course not, they made a choice based on weighing up the perceived benefits compared to the things which they didn't like.

If wholehearted support (or rejection) for every single aspect of something is the only way in which a vote is apparently allowable then Dhimmi Dave just threw democracy out of the window, making the election which saw his own party - along with the Liberals - enter office entirely illegitimate.

The truth is simply this - that Cameron had no intention of ever allowing the British people to decide whether they wished to remain a part of the EU or not.

His weasel words about a referendum were aimed to appease the Eurosceptics in his own party, and to win some votes from the British people who were mug enough to take him at his word.

There may be some within the Tory party who would like to see us out of Europe - but Dhimmi Dave and the rest who are calling the shots are not among them. None of the big three parties will ever give us a say, the answer they'll get is not the answer that they want.

So long as we keep on voting Con/Lab/Lib then we'll be staying in the EU, and ending up with ever closer ties and fuller political union. Eurosceptics in any of those parties wield no power over the leadership and will be ignored.

None of them will give the British people a say - they don't care what we think, other than when it echoes their own opinions.